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"Lunches with Wolves" (the fake Ben Franklin quote on Democracy)"Lunches with Wolves" was how Wednesday's New York Post editorial described Governor Spitzer's lunch with Sheldon Silver and Joe Bruno. The editorial begins: "Democracy has been defined as two wolves and a sheep discussing plans for lunch." A second line is often added: "Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." And finally the phrase is usually--incorrectly--attributed to Ben Franklin. The word "lunch" wasn't popular until about the 1820s and would not have been said by Franklin. Wikipedia discusses that the quote is bogus and doesn't appear until 1994! A colleague today found it in the Los Angeles Times, January 12, 1992: "Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote. Those rights are spelled out in the Bill of Rights and in our California Constitution. Voters and politicians alike would do well to take a look at the rights we each hold, which must never be chipped away by the whim of the majority." James Bovard is sometimes credited for the phrase, and he did use it in the Washington Times, August 29, 1992: "The USDA's concept of democracy reminds one of the old joke: Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Why should the government give some farmers the power to vote to destroy other farmers' property rights?" Perhaps two wolves and a lamb beats "three men in a room," but I dunno. LINKS: I was trying to find the source of this quote, but it is cerrtainly not from 1992. I first heard it form a college professor in 1978, though I do not recall him taking credit ofr originating it. It might be from the political theorist R. H. Tawney, but I need to check. Schizophrenia Symptoms | AmlodipineI was trying to find the source of this quote, but it is cerrtainly not from 1992. I first heard it form a college professor in 1978, though I do not recall him taking credit ofr originating it. It might be from the political theorist R. H. Tawney, but I need to check.
Is this quote in "The Stand" by Stephen King which was written prior to 92? I might be wrong or it might have been added later but im pretty sure its in there. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner. A republic is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner but the sheep has all the guns."
I've seen the following version on various blogs, but I do not know the origin of it. "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is an armed lamb contesting the vote." No matter where this originated, it is certainly thought provoking. I would only add that the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of rights also protect the "lamb" (or the minority) from the whims of the majority. and i read it in an article by either Robert Heinlein or Isaac Asimov in 1961, but i don't recall them attributing the quote. i think the word used then was "dinner", not "lunch". it may have been "luncheon", which WAS in common use in older times. damn good proverb in any case, pointing out that tyranny is just as possible in a democracy as in any other form of government. ask a member of any minority.
This quote may have its roots in the quote:
"Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper."
—Larry Flynt
no info on when Flynt said this.
A Democracy while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide. That, as a republic is the best of governments, so that particular arrangements of the powers of society, or, in other words, that form of government which is best contrived to secure an impartial and exact execution of the laws, is the best of republics. Property is surely a right of mankind as real as liberty. John Adams The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. Thomas Jefferson A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government. It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. Never spend your money before you have earned it. I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. Thomas Jefferson This has to be THE BEST and absolutely fabulous time. I savor the shot to travel through this country from my home. It is simply organically good and wholesome when we understand each other that bind us together. Hopefully we can make a difference. thanks, the transition to understanding projectThis could be THE MOST AWESOME and super specia week. I relish the opertunity to traverse across our land from the coffe shop on the corner. car shipping It is simply brilliant and beautiful when we come upn ourselves that gives us hope. I Hope we can make a positive change. sincerely, the happy project
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner. A republic is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner but the sheep has all the guns."
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I just had lunch and came across your site, really funny because we had the discussion where the word came from. I will send it to my collegeaus with my HTC Sensation
THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTIONThe United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican The lamb doesnt necessarily have to be those whos rights are in jeopardy. When i first heard it, what came to mind, was that in democracy, the majority is always out to get the minority. I mean if you think about it, in america, when the liberals are in power, theyre out to get the conservatives, and when the conservatives are in power, theyre out to get the liberals. Just another way of looking at it, its not necessarily about the lamb being the weakling whos having their rights taken away. Its about whoever has the majority, wants to take advantage of it.
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Mr. Bodie replied that we are first a Republic and than a Democracy. The difference being that the Bill of Rights and Constitution restrict what the government (theoretically representing the majority) can do.
Mr. Boddie had a colorful definition of Democracy without such
restriction: "It is when two wolves and one sheep decide to vote on 'What's for dinner?'"