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I Guess It All Depends Upon Your Definition of “Progress”
The number of phone calls I’ve gotten urging me to support Chris Owens for Congress because he is the most “progressive” candidate, has gotten me thinking (always a dangerous activity). The term “progressive” is obviously meant as a shorthand, but shorthand for what? Earlier this year, WFP Executive Director Dan Cantor said Eliot Spitzer would be the most progressive Democratic governor since FDR, ignoring the fact that Roosevelt’s immediate successor, Herbert Lehman, was clearly more progressive than FDR. Moreover, depending upon how the word is defined, Spitzer might also be said to be less “Progressive” than Charles Poletti, Averill Harriman, Hugh Carey and Mario Cuomo. Mario's WORDS were certainly more progressive than Spitzer's; Mario's DEEDS (to the extent he ever did anything but blame his complete lack of accomplishments on a Republican Senate he refused to expend any of his political capital, monetary or otherwise, on trying to alter for the better) may not so qualify. The word “Progressive” actually derives from a Republican, Theodore Roosevelt, and it describes middle-class oriented process reforms, used to differentiate himself from big-business oriented Republicans and sell himself in opposition to “Populists” like William Jennings Bryan, as well Socialists like Eugene Debs. It was the original version of the triangulation popularized in the 1990s by Bill Clinton. The use of the term by Clinton type Democratic triangulators, as well as by more liberal Democrats, infuriated many on both the left and right. Those on the left were outraged that Democrats were afraid to calls themselves liberal, and said such pandering just played into enemy hands. Conservatives apparently disagreed, condemning the use of the word as an attempt by liberals to deceive voters by hiding their true agenda (when they weren’t claiming it proved the death of liberalism). Critics on both the left and right said the proud liberals of old would never have used such a term to describe themselves. Actually though, FDR did everything he could to remind folks of his Teddy connection, including publicly embracing old Bull Moosers like Harold Ickes Sr. I'm sure he dropped the word "progressive" now and then. Definitely a subject for further research. It's actually quite interesting how two separate groups have embraced the word "progressive" in recent times. The first manifestation is really a "neo-liberal" phenomena, as when Tip O'Neill explained to a TV journalist that he couldn't always push for liberal goals because a good portion of his party's conference was "conservative, moderate or progressive". The DLC's think-tank is called "The Progressive Policy Institute". In that vein, Mario Cuomo, a more paleo-liberal (at least rhetorically), called himself a "Progressive pragmatist". Spitzer may qualify as a Progressive in this sense, although I think he actually is more in the original TR mode. However, Cantor's used the word to imply something quite different. His use of the word is the more predominate these days, although it is also longstanding. It used to describe those who are left of liberal. In 1948, the Communist Party USA was at the forefront of a movement headed by former Vice President Henry Wallace, which objected to Harry Truman's cold war liberalism. At the time, the Communists were very much into flag-wrapping. Their slogan was "Communism is 20th Century Americanism". They embraced Lincoln and American roots music as their own. And, with an eye on being seen as embracing the mantle of Teddy Roosevelt (and, to a lesser extent, Bob La Follette) they called themselves "Progressives". The adoption of the name was not an accident. It had the ring of Roosevelt in it, and Wallace himself was a former Republican of the TR variety who joined the Democrats at the same time as Harold Ickes. (Yes, I am aware that the majority of those who supported the 1948 “Progressive” movement were not Communists, but as Wallace himself later bemoaned, the Communist Party dominated the movement's structure and controlled its operations). These days, once again, the majority of those using the term progressive are generally describing something to the left of the conventional liberal agenda. In everyday usage "progressive" is mostly used as shorthand for the politically correct left catechism of the Michael Moore wing of the Democratic Party. As such, while, as Conservatives charge, someone may be hiding their agenda by using the word, it is not necessarily the liberals.
NOTE TO READERS: Have you visited Gatemouth's Home page lately? It's just been Update again. Click here: http://www.r8ny.com/node/843 I think what Gatey is doing here is essentially using "Michael Moore Democrat" in the way that term has been used (and coined by) certain interested parties on the right. It's shorthand for 'crazy lefty', which is a bit of a disservice to the namesake and those usualy described thus. Google 'Progressive party platform of 1912' for a good summation of what Progressivism is in spirit.
It utterly misreads Eliot's history to imagine that he would be "left of liberal" for all sorts of obvious reasons. I think it is also wrong to think that he is progressive in the Teddy Roosevelt mold, tempting as it may be. The trust-busting progressive movement of TR's age sought to balance the interests of consumers and workers with those of capital. Spitzer's focus has been on the interests of the (relatively) small investor versus those of management and and larger holders of capital. These are the class distinctions that resonate today. Smaller holders of capital resent larger holders of capital and their managers skimming disproportionate shares of the proceeds. Spitzer's popularity in the suburbs, and among cultural/social conservatives is a testament to this movement. I'm not sure how this translates into his plicies as governor and, to some degree, Eliot has struggled to define himself beyond the fundamental distinctions that brought him to prominence.
“Just what do you mean by that? Seriously. His piece on Columbine was complex and went way beyond the "blame the gun" line most people assume he is pushing. F 9/11 was pretty much an accurate depiction of what went wrong with Bush's policies. So do you mean Democrats who are moderately pro-gun and who are pissed as hell at the incompetent, corrupt chickenhawks who are running this nation? Cause if that is what you mean then I am damned proud to be a Michael Moore Democrat.” – Mole333
Mole: As I’ve said to you may times before, we’re just different kinds of liberals; and I might add, different kind of anti-war liberals. As David Greenberg in recently noted in Slate, this divide is similar to the one over Vietnam: “the anti-war spectrum ranged much further than the McGovernite fringe...there were the liberals. Early on, mainstream anti-communist liberals such as John Kenneth Galbraith, Hans Morgenthau, Walter Lippmann, and Montana Sen. Mike Mansfield counseled against intervention in Vietnam….As the war widened and deepened, however, liberals' criticisms grew louder.…The most talented liberal leaders harnessed the energies of the young and the angry without succumbing to demagogic gestures or anti-imperialist cant. The classic example of this liberal dissent was Allard Lowenstein, the energetic mastermind of the "Dump Johnson" campaign of 1967 and 1968. Rooted in Cold War liberalism, holding no truck with communism, he was more interested in reaching out to the center than spurning it…Although he considered the war both an error and a lost cause, Lowenstein disdained an immediate pullout in favor of winding down the conflict through phased withdrawals, talks with the North Vietnamese, and a coalition government for the South….Far from renouncing American influence abroad , RFK reaffirmed "our right to moral leadership of this planet."...The three top Democratic candidates running in 1972 denounced the war. Edmund Muskie of Maine pledged "as close to an immediate withdrawal from Vietnam as possible." Hubert Humphrey insisted, "Had I been elected [in 1968], we would now be out of that war." It's not likely that either man, if nominated, would have run a "come home" America campaign like McGovern's. ..Philosophically and politically, the Democrats' post-Vietnam retreat from internationalism was a mistake….Similarly, there exist today many strains of anti-war opinion. Only a minority of critics of the war would endorse the left-wing maximalism now gaining so much attention in the news media. Indeed, a broad consensus now thinks the Iraq war was a mistake—even if no one can agree on what to do about it.” But frankly, Mole, I don’t think you like this guy Moore as much as you think. I’ve surfed the net looking for examples of his ideology, and it is not pretty; yet his poisonous viewpoint exemplifies a strong strain of the America Left. This strain cost us the 2000 election by its opposition, and probably cost us the 2004 election by its support. I think the perception of its influence on the party, although exaggerated, has been a factor in our recent inability to win national elections. Before you object, let’s look at the record” MOORE ON GORE: "The equation is, a vote for Bush is a vote for Bush. I want Ralph Nader to get millions of votes on Tuesday. I have seen the response to Ralph at numerous huge rallies across the country. There is a progressive movement afoot in America and it needs to explode into a majority movement -- beginning now, not four years from now. I will not feel one iota of guilt should you screw up and lose on Tuesday. The blame I do share is that I voted for you and Bill in 1992. And I have spent the last 8 years doing what I could, in my own small ways, to try and stop the hemorrhaging that your administration caused.
“Of course many Israeli children had died too, at the hands of the Palestinians. You would think that would make every Israeli want to wipe out the Arab world, but the average Israeli does not have that response. Why? Because IN THEIR HEARTS, THEY KNOW THEY ARE WRONG, AND THEY KNOW THEY WOULD BE DOING JUST WHAT THE PALESTINIANS ARE DOING IF THE SANDAL WERE ON THE OTHER FOOT.” “Hey, here’s a way to stop suicide bombings – give the Palestinians a bunch of missile-firing Apache helicopters and let them and the Israelis go at each other head to head. Four billion dollars a year to Israel – four billion dollars a year to the Palestinians – they can just blow each other up and leave the rest of us the hell alone.” “Now I’m not just talking about your everyday anti-Semites. No, I’m talking about a perceived notion that we Americans are supporting Israel in its oppression of the Palestinian people. Now where did those Arabs come up with an idea like that? Maybe it was when the Palestinian child looked up in the air and saw and American Apache helicopter firing a missile into his baby sister’s bedroom just before she was blown into a hundred bits.” “It’s all part of the same ball of wax, right? The oil companies, Israel, Halliburton.” MICHAEL MOORE ON TERRORISM: “there is no terrorist threat in this country. This is a lie. This is the biggest lie we’ve been told.” MICHAEL MOORE ON KOSOVO: “We know Clinton is lying to us. We know there is no "Holocaust" taking place”
“Now, it is time for all of us to stop Clinton and his disgusting, hypocritical fellow democrats who support him in this war. It is amazing to watch all these "liberal" congress members line up behind the President. In a way, I'm glad it's happening, if only to show the American people there is little difference between the Democrats and the usually war-loving Republicans. Aren't you getting a kick watching the Pat Buchanans and the Henry Hydes sounding like pacifists! These politicians can change stripes at the drop of a hat (or bomb) because, ultimately, they are the same animal, participants in a one-party system that tries to fool the people by going by two names ("Democrat" and "Republican").”
MOORE ON GORE: "I want Ralph Nader to get millions of votes on Tuesday. i have seen the response to Ralph Nader at numerous huge rallies across the country. There is a progressive movement afoot in America and it needs to explode into a majority movement--beginning now, not four years from now" "I will not feel one iota of guilt should you screw up and lose on Tuesday. The blame I do share is that i vote for you and Bill in 1992. And I have spent the last 8 years doing what I could, in my own small ways, to try and stop the hemorrhaging that your administration caused." MOORE ON KOSOVO: "What a sad pathetic man Bill Clintn is. Though many have criticized him for dodging the draft, I actually admired the fact he refused to go and kill Vietnamese. Not all of us from the working class had the luxury, and tens of thousands of our brothers died for absolutely no damned reason. For this "anti-war" President to order such a misguided, ruthless -- and yes, cowardly--attack from the air is a disappointment of massive proportions." "Now is the time for all of us to stop Clinton and his disgusting, hypocritical fellow democrats who support him in the war. It is amazing to watch all these "liberal" congress members line up behind the President. In a way, I'm glad it's happening; if only to show the American people there is little difference between the Democrats and the usually war-loving Republicans. aren't you getting a kick watching the Pat Buchanans and the Henry Hydes sounding like pacifists. These politicians can change stripes at the drop of a hat (or bomb) because, ultimately, they are the same animal, participants in a one-party system that tries to foll the people by going by two names ("Democrat" and "Republican")" MOORE ON AFGHANISTAN: "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f---wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed. If you are unable to take out this lone ZZ Top wannabe, what on earth would you do for us if we were attacked by a nation of millions? For chrissakes, call the Israelis and have them do that thing they do when they want to get their man! We pay them enough billions each year, I am SURE they would be happy to accommodate your request...." Okay, but I think you are setting up a straw man arguement here. You lump together those who call themselves "progressives" (which includes me) together and label them "Michael Moore Democrats." First off, progressives are not one uniform group. Among those people I know of who are consciously calling themselves "progressive" are Greens, Yassky supporters, old-fashioned Jewish Liberals (FDR style), big time Clinton and Kerry supporters, Dean supporters, Kucinich supporters, etc. Most I am personally involved with are pro-Israel. Almost all want to see our government go back to Clinton's "let's get al Qaeda" policy rather than Bush's "let's make war for Halliburton" strategy. Most of these people identify themselves as progressives very consciously and deliberately but do NOT fall into your category as you define it. You are doing a typical Republican tactic of tarring an entire group (myself included) with an image of the most extreme members of that group. You have certainly seen me stand up for Israel and dis Greens, right? Surely you've seen my articles advocating fighting al-Qaeda and opposing Bush's stupid policies which enable the rise of extremist Islam (BBC radio picked up on one of those articles, surely you saw one of them?). And yet you want to paint me as an extremist? That is the impression I get reading your original article. Second, Michael Moore himself doesn't fit exactly the image you are painting because even he has some conservative views, as on guns. Now of course some of what you quote I do not agree with at all. I would like to see context for some of them, others I don't need context to disagree with. But I think you and I AND Michael Moore would agree far more than we disagree. Remove the issue of Israel and that agreement would increase even more. One of my main problems with your writing (as opposed to our discussions) is that you spend much of your time tearing down people who are basically in agreement with you and are potential allies. You villify people you only partly disagree with based on those partial disagreements and often don't initially give your real reasons for disagreement because you are so busy vilifying them. Do I do the same? Probably, at least sometimes. But I think not with the same causal attitude you do. You don't tell us what you DO support, who you are enthusiastic about, what, in short, you ADVOCATE people do. Rather you vilify. So when I read your articles I consider you an irritatingly smug, useless sod who talks about things you know little about. When I discuss things with you I find we are about 98% in agreement on almost every major issue and that you are reasonable and thoughtful. So which Gatemouth is the real one? This article does you no credit. All it does is irritate. Now again, I do wonder if what I write may be similar and my criticisms may apply to me as well. But I don't think so. Ease up on yourself. You are often humorless, but you have a good heart. My biggest problem with you is your seem unaware of your cognitive dissonance, seemingly reflexively backing up "progressives" of the Moore sort, when you should know better. I am quite aware that you do not fit the Moore mode; your defense of him came as something of a shock. I went through the trouble of finding all that stuff, because I knew it would bother you. If I thought you would not find it ugly, I would not have bothered. I would not waste the time of engaging someone who I thought would not find that stuff ugly. And, hey, my intent has gotten side tracked here; although I might spin this of diversion into a piece now. My point was to have fun exploring the use of a word from which all real meaning had been squeezed. As you say, "progressives are not a uniform group". I go further, I say, they are not a group at all. The word is used to describe things which are so different as to have little commonality whatsoever. I think the purpose or language is to clarify meaning, and even when the purpose is to actually obscure meaning, it should be done knowingly. I think with the word progressive, the obscuring of meaning has become reflexive and unintentional, and I was shedding some light on the matter. It was really a "Strunk and White" piece, if you know what I mean. BTW, I think I was as hard on the right end of those who use the word (certainly on Spitzer), as on the left. And, as to my standing for nothing, I think my "ich bein ein DLCer" piece published lasted week outlines in great measure what I am for. Don't say it isn't there just because you don't like it (although my suspicion is you may like it more than you let on; aging does that to you sometime; you start assimilating what life has taught you, and it changes who you are and what you think, like water on a rock formation--you are a dad, so I'm sure you've realized this ). Once had a friend say to me, "you are always so serious." The same day another friend observed, "you're never serious!" Which of them is right? Both. You see me as humorless because you miss my sarcasm, or so I assume. It is true I take things very seriously in many ways...too many important and interesting things not to. On the other hand, I am never completely serious. Many see this come through in my writing. I guess my responses to you are too subtle (or lame?) in their sarcasm. Hell, if I took you too seriously we'd never have gotten beyond the initial name calling we subjected eachother to. As to uncritical judgements on my part...most people conisder me cynical! I am critical. If I wasn't, I never would have questioned my support of Yassky. Do I assume too much in the progressive label? Yes and no. I long ago grew disgusted with the bulk of the Democratic party. Although that was way after I grew disgusted with nearly the entirety of the Republicans. Despite that I have never seriously gone Green and find the Greens more repugnant, on average, than the average Dem. Why? Because they aren't critical enough of themselves. I feel more comforatble with the vascillation of many Dems than the blind certainty of many Greens...or Republicans. I judge politicians on several levels. Issues is a big one, but is not always easy to use when applied to NYC politics. I like people who are articulate and smart. I like people who don't say all the same old lines I have heard a hundred times before. Yassky is smart, but he uses old cliches and expects people to respond to them like they have never heard them before. I like complexity in answers, something that many voters don't like. I like direct answers, not evasiveness. And I do rely somewhat on my gut reaction. I was slow to jump on the Dean band wagon. Never saw support for Dean as ruling out liking Kerry. I always liked Gore since he became VP and see his acceptance by progressives today not as a major change in Gore but as a realization by progressives that Nader may have been lying. Liked Nader before he ran for office. Haven't liked him since. Was never a Jesse Jackson or Dennis Kucinich fan. So therein I think you see I do not blindly follow the progressive label. I like what the progressive label stands for and where it comes from. I like most of the stands taken by self-proclaimed progressives. But I do not assume blindly that someone who says they are progressive (like, say, Yassky) isn't really just using that label to get my support. And don't call me humorless just because you can't take a joke...  Mole it is possible to be sarcastic without being funny, and you may have mastered it. I used to work for an awful woman, who after making one of her numerous faux pas would look both innocent and and flustered and proclaim "I was joking!" to the offended individual. Finally, I offered her fool poroof advice on how to make people unmistakably aware that she was joking: "be funny!". membrane monogamous.Belgrade,collaborating smallest subtracting filings ... 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Just what do you mean by that? Seriously. His piece on Columbine was complex and went way beyond the "blame the gun" line most people assume he is pushing. F 9/11 was pretty much an accurate depiction of what went wrong with Bush's policies. So do you mean Democrats who are moderately pro-gun and who are pissed as hell at the incompetent, corrupt chickenhawks who are running this nation? Cause if that is what you mean then I am damned proud to be a Michael Moore Democrat.