Pack Up Your Clubbles

In the spring, it is said that a young man’s fancy lightly turns to thoughts of love. In New York City politics, however, the change of seasons is more likely to bring upon thoughts of endorsements by political clubs. In reality, the young man’s fancy is less likely to be focused upon hearts and flowers, and more likely to be concentrated upon the ways and means of getting laid. In reality, the political club’s focus is less likely to be implemented by means of elevated debates about the great issues of public policy and political philosophy, and more likely to be focused upon the necessity of packing club memberships to ensure the desired results. In both scenarios, the likelihood is that someone is going to get screwed.  


Memberships in clubs which hold endorsement votes (a lot of “regular” clubs do not) fluctuate like mercury in a spring thermometer. In 2001, when term limits opened up the floodgates of vacant city offices, so many folks, including a few Orthodox Jews, were packed into Brooklyn's gay club, Lambda Independent Democrats (LID), that it became a local joke:

Q: Name the demographic subgroup in Park Slope which contains the highest percentage of heterosexuals?
A: The membership of Lambda Independent Democrats.

Every year, clubs across the City engage in internal debates and finger pointing about the process. In many clubs, club-packing efforts are regarded as a way of boosting income from dues, and recruiting new members, although most people so recruited never show their face again, not even to carry petitions for the candidates they’ve supported. Former IND President Greg Atkins once called club-packing a time-honored tradition (although he apparently did so to a large chorus of boos and catcalls). Of course, even for club-packing’s defenders there is a caveat; club packing is regarded as OK as long as the local incumbents are not its target. Little things, like an endorsement for President, Mayor and Governor are considered fair game, but keep your freaking hands off my Assemblyman!

Every year, some grotesque effort at club packing somewhere in the City attracts so much attention it becomes this year’s poster child for change. In 2006, honors go the Brownstone Brooklyn’s Independent Neighborhood Democrats (IND) based in the 52nd AD (Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, DUMBO, and parts of Park Slope and Gowanus).

To sum up, in order to prevent club-packing (or at least provide it a level playing field), IND’s by-laws require someone be a member for 60 days before they can cast an endorsement vote. This year, IND’s executive board scheduled its endorsement meeting and some candidates took careful notice. What happened next is the subject of some dispute, but the differences in details do not change the substance of what occurred all that much, so I’ll go with the combination I find most credible: At nearly the last possible minute, when it was too late to respond, Marsha Borenstein, a paid staffer for Congressman Major Owens, who seems to spend the balance of her life as a “volunteer” for the Congressional campaign of the Congressman’s son Chris, dropped off membership applications and checks to pay for the membership of approximately one hundred new members, nearly doubling the club’s existing membership. The applications were almost all from people associated with the anti-Ratner group, Develop Don’t Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB), and many, if not most, came from residents of the next-door 57th Assembly District, not IND’s 52nd. Most of these folks also joined Brownstone Brooklyn’s other two “reform” clubs, LID and Central Brooklyn Independent Democrats (CBID), at the same time. That these folks were likely to vote for Chris Owens against David Yassky for Congress was a matter of some concern. That they were likely to vote for insurgent Ken Diamondstone against IND stalwart Marty Connor for State Senate was a matter of alarm. IND’s executive board responded by rescheduling the endorsement vote so that these people would be ineligible to participate.     

(Perhaps DDDB's next step will be a coup attempt at the Brownstone Republicans. It would be much easier, and they'd get invited to better dinners. Might actually meet Bruce at one of them.)  

There has always been a great debate among the “progressive” cognescenti about whether IND really qualifies as a “reform” club. For years, the club was run as Assemblywoman Eileen Dugan's personal fiefdom, with rewards and punishments meted out in an arbitrary and capricious manner, while she personally supervised who sat with whom at club dinners (this was a point of pride). New applicants had to be approved by an executive committee she kept in her back pocket next to the ring she required visitors to kiss.  The best that can be said is that she was a benevolent tyrant who had the implicit consent of the serfs she lorded over. These days, IND is mostly about supporting it's electeds, which it does with varying degrees of competence, depending upon who's paying attention. If one is animated by a desire for remaking America as a social democracy, then IND is probably the wrong place to hang your hat. If one is animated by the desire for “good-government” process “reform”, you could do worse; IND is animated by a desire for certain “reforms” at certain times, subject to change. They got all self righteous about supporting Margarita Lopez-Torres for Surrogate, but like Major and Chris Owens, they were also all gung ho for lifetime hack Mike Feinberg as well. They are usually pretty damned liberal, but they are full of “reform” in phases; the moon is sometimes full too. But, after its efforts this year, who can doubt that IND's clearly proven that they are “reformers”? Only a bunch of “reformers” could run such a circus. “Regulars” wouldn’t need to play such games to win a vote in their own club, if they even bothered to hold a vote at all.

This is all a bit silly. Chris and Major and their taxpayer paid retainer, Marsha Borenstein, joined by Ken Diamondstone and the entire cast of the Off-Broadway musical “Develop Don't Destroy" pulled a fast one. They deserve credit for their panache, especially the element of surprise. This was a professionally executed coup attempt (kudos to Kas Stolzman). I mean, in his prior attempts at elected office, Ken Diamonstone couldn't organize his way out of a paper bag. Brownstone electeds, including Bill DeBlasio and Jim Brennan, should take notice. Without the issue of Atlantic Yards, these folks would have had trouble mustering six extra votes to sign up. Two years ago,  (according to Erik Engquist), it took Carl Andrews' help and the posthumous collaboration of an executive board, which agreed to overlook the casting of ineligible votes,  for Major to win IND’s endorsement (how ill does moral outrage befit such hypocrites). Even if we concede, arguendo, that the Ratner opponents do not necessarily represent majority opinion in the area (and I think they might), they surely represent the majority of white folks who feel strongly enough about the issue to actually take some action. Even if Ratner was writing the checks, I doubt Bertha Lewis could muster this many folks to join IND without changing the complexion of the club in more ways than one.

Ironies abound. None of the folks targeted is much of a Ratner enthusiast (although they are clearly not strong opponents either), and Connor and Yassky would probably be more effective in efforts to downscale the project than Owens and Diamondstone. More ironically, Chris Owens probably blew a pretty good shot at taking the club without packing it. Millman and Connor have never trusted Yassky, and their support for him is pro forma at best (they wouldn't mind it if he blew his bankroll on a Congressional race before term limits set in and he starts considering other options). Now they are surely down with the cause and will pull out all the stops for David.

And Diamondstone's campaign seems born of obsession rather than rationality. He's been talking about it for years. Last time out he discovered at the last minute that there was a residency requirement to run. This time, he's rented an apartment in the district, but sent out a Christmas card letting folks know that his old place was still his business address. Has he hired John O'Hara as his legal advisor?

Diamondstone portrays himself as the great reformer, and he's no doubt sincere, but he's obsessed by visions of his own sainthood (although he may be right). Moreover, as of late, Connor and he have been on the same side in nearly every battle. They both were key players in Margarita Lopez-Torres' successful campaign for Surrogate. And Diamondstone was apparently a guest at Connor's infamous anti-Clarence 2003 “Counter Dinner” held the same night as County's event at the Marriott. Since being dumped as Senate Minority Leader, Connor has clearly been more of an insurgent than a reformer, sort of like the whorehouse piano player who left to join the Salvation Army Band; but in the last few years, he's been the brains behind nearly every successful anti-organization effort in Brooklyn. I myself have had mixed feelings about these efforts (Lopez-Torres is more overrated than Led Zeppelin or "The L Word"), but one must still wonder why Diamondstone is so obsessed. Perhaps he should consider that bringing about change involves building a larger consensus, which involves acquiring allies. Connor is not a reformer, but he's been the best ally the Brooklyn reformers have. If they jump ship on him now, for good or bad reasons, other potential allies, even ones who dislike Connor, will see that there is no point in making common cause with folks who'll stab you in the back at the first opportunity. Vito Lopez will certainly laugh all night long (since Yassky's been a less steadfast ally of reform, I can't say the same caveat applies to him).

The truth is this endorsement ain't worth that much. As a brand name, IND long ago lost most of its luster, and what little luster's left will be tarnished by this year's tainted process (and it won't be the first time that's happened). That will actually be a moral victory for Diamondstone and Owens (as long as one doesn’t analyze it too carefully). For Connor, losing would have been an embarrassment, but nearly two-thirds of the district's in Manhattan, where he's supported (and not just pro forma) by everyone from Shelley Silver to Rosie Lopez, I mean  Mendez. Plus he's got the Williamsburg Hasidim in that Brooklyn third. Owens had more to gain from victory, as a defeat for Yassky on Yassky's home turf might potentially lead to a Yassky withdrawal, or seriously weaken him. But, as I've pointed out, Owens might have actually blown victory by this fast and loose tactic.

While IND's signatures are good one, and usually come large in an even year (when things Joan Millman cares about are at stake); this was not really the issue. Connor will come large on petitions just on his Manhattan clubs, and Yassky's never trusted IND's operation for ballot access (he's had to endure their lame odd-year efforts). Owens also has probably seen fit to make plans to qualify regardless. If Diamondstone really thought he was going to get a petition windfall from an IND victory, he was truly dreaming. Past history indicates how Connor and Millman's allies, who are the majority of the club's active petition gathering members (rather than people who just sent checks in), would respond. Joan Millman and the District Leaders would refuse to run on the IND petitions (or at least those with Diamondstone). All the Millman loyalists would be called and told not to carry the Diamondstone petitions. There would be a separate petition operation for Connor-Millman outside of IND, made up of all of IND's old petition carriers, and the club, with its 90 new members and Ken Diamonstone, would likely be left to wither and die like WBID did in the 1980's (when something similar occurred). So, the only signatures Diamondstone would have gained would be the ones he was already going to get anyway through his diehard supporters. So now that that's clear, everyone can pull an Aiken, declare victory, and go home. The real battles will be settled by the voters, who couldn't care less about this inside baseball (more like spitball, actually).  Both sides look pretty scummy; both have a dubious but arguable moral case ("the rules are the rules and shouldn't change in the middle of a battle" versus "we're protecting the desires of the actual membership, who didn't join en masse the day before yesterday and will still be there the day after tomorrow"), if either side has the high ground, it's from the top of a dung heap, no one but the insiders care, and, in the end, it hardly matters. 

Club packing is sleazy and unseemly. Yes, the IND rules permit club packing, so even if club-packing violates the spirit of the rules, Owens and Diamonstone were in technical compliance with their provisions. Changing the rules in the middle of the game is also sleazy and unseemly. But, the IND rules permit changing the rules in the middle of the game, so even if changing the rules in the middle of the game violates the spirit of the rules, the Executive Committee was in technical compliance with their provisions. In a court of equity, one who seeks an equitable remedy (rather than a legal one) must come to the court with clean hands. In this case, neither side qualifies. Clubs have a right to ensure that its endorsement votes reflect the feelings of those who actually participate in the club's ongoing activities. That being said, rescheduling an endorsement meeting to ensure a particular result is playing it a bit fast and loose, but no more so than packing the club at the last minute was in in the first place. The scheduling change deserves to be condemned by all those who are without sin, but good luck finding anyone who qualifies. You can't excuse sleazy tactics as being within "the rules", and then complain when the same rules slap you upside the face. It is actually quite amusing to see DDDB, Owens, Diamonstone, et al hoisted by their own filthy petard, and those who’ve seen their own clubs invaded by outsiders who never bothered to stay after the damage was done are entitled to their schadenfreude. As to the Exec Board’s actions, I know someone will claim that condemning them equally with the "packers" is like blaming the Jews and Romans (or was it Greeks?) equally for Masada (or the Jews for the damage they inflicted on their adversaries during the Warsaw ghetto uprising). Nonsense; it was pros behaving like pros; only if the pros were really professional, they would have addressed the problem in advance. It is too bad someone had to win this fight.  

As a skeptic about the Atlantic Yards project, I certainly admire DDDB’s  level of commitment. But, once again, like so many anti-yards efforts, it was a blunderbuss fired at the wrong target. In all this time of controversy, Marty Connor got only two letters on the Yard project from his own constituents. Doesn’t anyone understand that if he got two hundred, he might have been more likely to stand up to the unions and the Borough President?  But this is hardly the first silly thing done by DDDB. They demanded that the MTA get a better price for the Yards; as a result, Ratner's costs went up and the project's scope was expanded to make up the costs. Thanks guys. The IND fiasco is another in a series of completely boneheaded maneuvers by the opponents of the Yards projects which have done nobody no good. Hell, Bruce didn't need to buy Bertha Lewis; it would have been cheaper just to create DDDB himself to lead the opposition on quixotic crusades to nowhere until he ran out the clock. That'll teach Connor and Yassky not to give him unreserved support.



Submitted by PetardHoister (not verified) on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 8:01pm.
Good bunch of hearsay Gatemouth. bravo.
Great lack of understanding of the Atlantic Yards issue and the
opposition to the project. Brilliant knowledge of the facts and the
scenarios. You're clueless, but because you talk tough you think
you know something. Bravo.

for example, DDDB finding a competitor to Ratner has led to
the inclusion of that plan into the EIS (know what that is?) it 
had NOTHING to do with the increased size of the project,
that increase happened before Extell ever came into the picture
raising Ratner's pittance to a half pittance. get a clue dude.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 8:02pm.
IND? their actions relegate them further into side-showdom
Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 8:15pm.
Petardo: So, the hearsay that a primarally heterosexual group of opponents of the yards project from the 57th AD joined clubs serving  LGBT people or residents of the 44th and 52nd ADs, in an attempt to totally usurp the nature of those organizations, turns out to be exactly correct. Thanks for clearing that up. And next time I'll explain why signing onto an amicus brief on the same side as the right-wing Cato Institute (as a prelude to their attempt to render great swaths of environmental regulations unconstitutional)  is not a progressive move. Thank you again for being someone else's useful idiot.  

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 8:26pm.
More BS Gatemouch DDDB wrote and filed its own amicus brief.
get your facts straight. and joined the likes of Jane Jacobs, 
NAACP, and AARP, you know, right wing property rightists like
that. why not slam BUILD, and the revered rev. daughtry
for filing an amicus on behalf of crony-laden muncipalities? 

again, you're spewing garbage.

LID (no you don't have to be gay), IND, CBID are open to anyone
who wants to join. gotta problem with that? 

Submitted by PetardHoister (not verified) on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 8:36pm.
also open your Eyes, Gatemouth, the backlash to Kelo
spreads from California to NY, from Maxine Waters
to the ousted Tome Delay. anyone opposed to govt taking
people's homes and business to corporations who happen
to fund those governments isn't therfore a Cato fellow traveler.
smart guy.

Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 8:49pm.

21:26: Eminent domain has been used for privately owned projects with a public purpose since the rail roads and the Erie Canal. Built this country. Whatever your intent, take a look at the roster of Justices who took your side. All the usual far-right suspects. Like I said, DDDB serving the function of useful idiots. It would be far better to fight for changes in eminent domain law in the legislature rather than to try to repeal two centuries of constitutional law. Or did you think this was Dred Scott?

And, I've yet to write a nice word anywhere about Bertha Lewis or Rev. Daughtry. Check the archives at Politicker and Daily Politics.

And, yes anyone can join these groups. So, that makes it OK to hijack them from their stated purpose? Do straights now outnumber LGBTs at Lambda? Are you proud? Or do you do it for the same reason a dog licks its testes, because you can? Well, you got neutered; so sorry, how unsporting of them, just because you were about to mount their prize breeding bitch during mating time. Hey, why not take over the Republicans too? It would be so much easier, and you'd get invited to better dinners. Might actually meet Bruce at one of them.  



Submitted by mole333 (not verified) on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 9:00pm.

This whole blog seems cobbled together from a discussion Gatemouth and I had on the Daily News blog. What, you couldn't even refresh your memory of what happened at Masada? Dude, the Masada fortress was built by Herod the Great well after the Seleucid Greeks were a force in the area. It was the Romans. I could understand the uncertainty once. Messing up twice? Well...typical.

 

I also want to add that your analysis of who did the packing completely contradicats  what  the IND exec board members I have talked to have said. I suspect you have latched onto a rumor that fits with your own image of what happened rather than fitting your theory to facts. Yassky and Owens both packed. Neither was responsible for the last minute influx that panicked the club into violating it's own stated ideals. Owens, Diamondstone and DDDB certainly don't form some sort of triumvirate as you imply.

 

Packing isn't cool. But it is universal. The main problem is IND knew a year in advance that packing was coming this year in a big way. Yet it did nothing until after the fact. That is the number one problem in this whole thing. IND saw the it coming, failed to act, and now is all up in arms because people they don't like were winning the exact game they themselves play.


Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 9:02pm.

Petardo: My problem with your position as Kelo is I think the courts are the wrong forum to fight eminent domain abuses. The legislature is a more appropriate forum, and the potential consequences of that route are far less troubling (in fact, not troubling at all). But, when have the yards opponents ever took on a fight in a forum where victory is possible, when you can take a blunderbuss and close your eyes before you aim it? And, are you guys still trying to move the arena to to the mass-transit free, flood zoned,  Navy  Yard? Another brillaint tactic. After all, laughter is the best medicine and who can take you guys seriously?

And, why spend your time fighting with a guy like me who opposes the current proposal, and regularly disses Marty Markowitz? Another example of useful energy directly uselessly.    



Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 9:07pm.
Mole you are wrong. It is not cobbled together from a discussion we had on the Daily News blog; it also includes stuff from two other discussions on the Politicker. I'm an environmentalist and believe in recylcing. This is like criticizing a novelist from drawing material from his notebooks.

Submitted by IND oldtimer (not verified) on Sun, 04/23/2006 - 9:17am.

I first want to say again that I wish Gatemouth could restrain himself from dancing on dead people's graves. While his portrait of Eillen Dugan is not without its element of truth, it is only a half-truth which gives no indication as to why this great woman was so beloved in her community. However, I'll sleep easily with the knowledge that Eileen will not let this slight go unanswered. Most assuredly, Gatemouth will have a vistor tonight while he dreams, and she is going to be extremely pissed off.  

As someone who regards IND as the victim here, it distresses me that Gatemouth feels the need to do his usual "they're all no good" act, without following up with his usual "but, I guess this one is slightly better" act. The truth is not served by paying false tribute to the G-d of evenhandedness.

I do think Gate's facts are close to the truth, as far as anyone can know it. It would be nice if those in possession of the facts owned up and told us things when Marsha brought in the applications, and how many there were. What percentage came from outside the 52nd AD? Stuff like that.

I'll start by saying that alot of discussion took place in front of the club and elsewhere, and that I heard Diamondstone's campaign manager, Kas Stolzman, who, back when he was a blonde, used to work for Connor, confronted with exactly the sceanario outlined by Gatemouth. He denied nothing, and just said that it was all permitted by the rules and he had played by the rules. He seemed very proud of himself. He was also seen in exstensive conversation with DDDB people and the Owens crowd. The Marsha Borenstein story came to me from a candidate for a different office, who certainly had no axe to grind for David Yassky or Marty Connor, and  who heard it from one of the District Leaders while attempting to get their support.

Frankly though, a slight change in these facts would not significantly alter the story. If you re-arranged the deck chair on the Titanic, it still would have hit the iceberg.       


Submitted by PetardHoister (not verified) on Sun, 04/23/2006 - 9:28am.
ah the old switcheroo, don't like what i say, beaten on rebuttal,
on to the next boneheaded argument and name calling.

Under Kelo, ED at AYards is Unconstitutional.
DDDB has been  lobbying for ED reform in Albany for
two years consistently. personally i've testified for reform
in front of two senate committees–in Albany and in White Plains,
and in fron of Brodsky in Manhattan. 

You?

Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sun, 04/23/2006 - 9:39am.

Oldtimer : Eileen did visit me. I gave her a glass of wine, and she told me her story about going to John Rooney's funeral to make sure he was really dead. But, I did wake up with a big boil on my nose.

How do I know the story is as I outlined it?

 1) If Yassky and Owens had packed the club evenly, no one would have bothered to stir up this kind of a fuss. Clearly, this is not what occurred.

2) Anyone who knows Joan Millman understands her level of anal retention. Clearly, she was monitoring new memberships on a day by day basis to make sure her interests were not threatened. Ninety new memberships delivered a month before the deadline would have resulted in at least 91 new members recruited by Millman and Connor. Clearly, the idea that she was taken by surprise at the last minute is consistent with reality. 

3) Clearly, your candidate was not the only one the District Leader (and others) shot off their mouth to. 

And, as to my analysis, I call them as I see them.  Your side won, so shut up and take it.  



Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sun, 04/23/2006 - 10:29am.

Petardo: Law is not my field, but it seems to me that the Yards opponents have an unhealthy belief that if something is bad public policy it is therefore unconstitutional, and should be struck down, by any means necessary, no matter what the consequences.

If we applied this to the medicinal marijuana case, victory for the side which was correct on public policy (the pro-weed folks) would have only required a complete change in interpretation of the commerce clause, which taken to its only logical conclusion would have required the repeal of the entire New Deal, Square Deal, New Frontier and Great Society, not to mention most of our civil rights statutes; no thanks says I. The same crowd on the court which voted pro-weed, supported your side on Kelo (maybe we should call the weed case "Kilo"). Frankly, I don't think your narrow interests justify being handmaiden to the efforts of those who want to re-instate the pre-New Deal "Constitution in Exile". But, you are obviously with Clarence Thomas on that one. I'll stick with John Paul Stevens.

But, even Thomas, Scalia and Alito would hand you your head if you argued before them that there is a distinction between the Yards case and Kelo, that requires a finding that the Yards taking be found unconstitutional even under Kelo. Frankly, Ratner has a much better claim to be creating a public benefit than the urban renewers did in the Kelo case.

So, while I agree that the grounds supporting the Yards takings seem too weak to justify such a measure as a matter of public policy, I think you will and should lose as a matter of constitutional law. 



Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sun, 04/23/2006 - 11:03am.
Petardo: Just to make it clear I'm not ignoring your earlier points, DDDB's call for the Yards to be sold at market rate (which would certainly raise the already high developments costs on such a difficult site) came way before you found Extell, and helped force MTA's price up, and would have done so whether you found Extell or not. While raising this issue was surely of some small benefit to all New Yorkers who use mass transit (thanks), it contributed to a large increase in the size and scope of the project (no thanks)  making it even less desirable for residents of nearby neighborhoods. I suppose this may be a part of some "Marxist-Leninist heightening of the contradictions" strategy of your part, and perhaps it may work (it made me more likely to oppose the project), but it ill-served all those who will eventually have to live with the damage, if and when (as seems likely) you fail.  

Submitted by PetardHoister (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 1:59pm.
You are right Gatemouth. Law is not your field, and it shows.
Read Kelo. What New London did vs. what Ratner is doing
are worlds apart, and based on Kelo, Ratnerville is unconstittional
not because its bad public policy, but because, well,
its unconstitutional. read the opinions. Ratnerville is
the poster child for an unconstitutional use of eminent domain.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 2:11pm.
I'm really sick of every discussion devolving into an Atlantic Yards debate. A lot of us really don't care that much. I mistakenly thought this was about the bizarre world of brooklyn democratic clubs. Yet I'm supposed to believe that AY is so incredibly important, that any dirty deed short of murdering unsympathetic candidates is acceptable to defeat it. Nonsense. Appeal to the voters and, if they buy your arguments, you'll elect people that support your side. DDDB is increasingly losing any moral high ground it once posessed.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 04/24/2006 - 11:53pm.
a blog comment thread going off topic. how strange.
now, anonymous, to get back to the topic then, what dirty deed 
are you talking about?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 8:58am.
Packing a club is pretty dirty. Not illegal, just dirty. Clubs are just that, clubs. Whatever influence they posess comes from being able to mobilize members to campaign, register, vote, donate, etc. When a special interest packs the club, the club loses it's meaning. All this so that the packer's choden candidate can put an endorsement on their website. I've never been a member of any club, but I couldn't be more firmly behind the IND on this one.
Submitted by mole333 (not verified) on Thu, 04/27/2006 - 8:23am.

I didn't catch this earlier. You say you got the story from someone who heard it from a District Leader. Thanks for giving us some idea where you heard it. I heard that it had nothing to do with the Yassky/Owens race from an IND member who saw the memberships and knows all the facts from the IND perspective. That person's statement was that Yassky and Owens acted equivalently and that Owens was not the source of the most suspicious packing. So I think my source was closer   to the action than your source or at least equivalent. All of this leads me to believe no one is yet sure who did it. My original hypothesis, backed by the surmises of one of my IND sources, may have been wrong. So I cannot say I know who did it though I have my suspicions. But the way you portray it does not agree with what I hear from the innermost circles of IND.


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