The Gateway ("Progressive" Blogger Circle Jerk Edition)

“Progressive” Bloggers Take on the 27th SD:

Mole 333 says progressives and reformers should get behind Lew Fidler, instead taking the swan dive they did on David Weprin.

I don't agree with every word here. Mole goes several bridges further in linking Storobin with white supremacists  than even I think is justified (and my articles are the sources for his assertions!). Further, he ignores the importance of Israel in the Weprin/Turner Congressional race and exaggerates somewhat the weakness of Weprin.
That being said, Mole does get that this race is no lock for Fidler, and is in fact an even tougher seat on the numbers than NY-9.
Further, not only does Mole make the case very well that progressives should endorse this decidedly moderate Democrat, but he makes the case better than anyone I’ve ever seen that Fidler has courageously stood up to County Leader Vito Lopez time and again on important matters (my only quibble here is to note that this did not begin with Lopez, Fidler also stood up to Clarence Norman.
 
By contrast, while Rock Hackshaw clearly likes Fidler, sort of endorsing him, and in fact speaks  more eloquently about Fidler’s virtues than even Fidler himself, he is far more of a skeptic than Mole (who is not without some skepticism of his own), and that is fine.
The problem here is that Rock seems to believe his race is a lock, when it surely is not.
Rock has clearly not looked the numbers, and instead proceeds feelings and instincts (which admittedly are often pretty savvy) in the same manner that led him to predict the Democrats would hold the House even though he admitted to not taking a district by district look at each important race.
I think his unfounded certainty of a Fidler victory allows Rock to proceed to some moderately sharp criticism without asking "Compared to What."
But Rock does not even look at the odious David Storobin, who’s not exactly been friendly to the concerns of black people or immigrants.
Further, Rock is on record opposing the Senate Republicans, and this race is a potential opportunity for them to expand their majority. That alone should motivate support which, whatever its caveats, is a bit less equivocal.
Instead of focusing on the important tax and budget concerns facing the State (Storobin favors a flat tax, massive budget cuts and eliminating the City’s painless Hotel Tax), Rock focuses on term limits.
If ever there was a less significant issue in the realm of what is going on in Albany today, this is it.
As Rock notes, Fidler voted to modify the term limits law. As Rock fails to note, Fidler ran everyone one of his races stating that this was his position, was challenged on it in successive elections, and won, again and again.
Fidler did not, like Bill DeBlasio or David Yassky, try to be all things to all people, depending upon the political convenience of the movement. Clearly, Fidler’s voters, when given the chance to weigh the issue in the context of Fidler's entire record, chose to support him in spite of his position. That is what is sometimes known as a mandate.
Rock asks Fidler "are you going to oppose the movement to bring twelve-year term limits to both Albany and Congress?"
Query: where in Albany does this movement exist? Who exactly is Fidler to join with?
Rock seems to be under the impression that the answer is his favorite, John Sampson, who, with the enactment of such term limits, would have to leave his job immediately.
Where is the evidence that John Sampson favors any sort of term limits?
I don’t mind Rock putting all his caveats in a row (it actually reminds me of me), but I do think priorities lack a bit of perspective.
 
 
 
A couple of the more interesting contributions from Carl Kruger's campaign committee:
 
BROOKLYN REPUBLICANS
 3029 AVENUE S
 BROOKLYN, NY 11229 1,650.00 07-APR-02 FRIENDS OF CARL
 2002 July Periodic
 
BROOKLYN REPUBLICANS
 2950 AVENUE S
 BROOKLYN, NY 11229 250.00 29-SEP-05 FRIENDS OF CARL
 2006 Jan Periodic
 

 

 
Dennis Kucinich: Progressive Hero, NOT! To stay safe, some Dems OK GOP maps - Alex Isenstadt www.politico.com

 

 

 

Wikipedia shuts down, forcing millions to do real research. It’s no LOL: Wikipedia, other sites go dark to protest SOPA bill www.nydailynews.com

 

 

 

Correction Time: The other day, in taking apart David Storobin's assertion that four of the last five Kings County Democratic Leaders had gone to jail (the actual number was one, which was bad enough), I said that the County Leader before Stanley Steingut was Tony Travis--I based this on a line in a 1968 New York Magazine Article by the former Manhattan Democratic Leader,  but his language was ambiguously misleading, and the real answer was Joseph Sharkey, who also never went to jail (except to visit friends).

I also failed to note that Steingut's Mickey Mouse indictment, which was thrown out, came long after he left as County Leader.

 



Rock Hackshaw's picture
Submitted by Rock Hackshaw on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 8:52am.
Okay. I will crunch the numbers. You are corrct on that one. ADMITTEDLY I DIDN'T. However, from my peregrinations, I do know that neck of the woods quite a bit; and I am certain that Dems still have a significant (though dwindling) numerical edge there that plays well in special elections. I didn't care to call Lew's opponent's name until it is official. Is it? Based on what I have read about him, I may have to put on my long-johns and go out there campaigning for Lew. Loook; the silent little firecracker (you know who I am talking about) will deliver Lew. She is a tremendous asset to his campaign. Plus she is fiesty like hell. I call her "Little Napoleon". They probably don't even need my chatter and bluster/lol. But I will show up with some peas and rice one day (plus a little bit of fried chicken too/lol). The opponent appears a bit odious; no? (GEEZE:I AM TOO OLD FOR THIS STUFF GATE). Now back to 2010/Novemeber: out of the four bets I challenged I won three. READ THE FULL THREAD> (1)Harry Reid was re-elected. (2)The repugs didn't recover House and Senate. (3)The dems held on to the Senate. And YES: I lost the one about the Dems retaining the House. But I had the balls to go with my feelings. The media helped hype the loss. They surpressed turnout with their doom and gloom predicitons/lol. Plus I even admitted that mid-term House losses by new presidents are normal. I expected that. READ THE WHOLE THREAD> How come you never bet me? Waiting for a SURE THING? LOL.

Submitted by mole333 on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 11:34am.

Didn't mean to over state his sympathies with white supremacist losers...added an additional comment to the effect that "link" may be overstating it and perhaps "he has seemed frighteningly sympathetic to" them and re-emphasizing my wife's question of why the hell is a Russian in Brooklyn so interested in the Afrikaaner Independence Movement anyway.

 Better?

 I didn't include the israel issue in the Congressional race because I considered that BS and basically Swiftboating and a stronger candidate or one with more energetic supporters could have easily swept that one aside. And I don't think I overstated Weprin's weakness as a candidate. Unfortunately he is typical of the people Democrats run: very good picks for doing the job but almost unelectablly bland and unable to inspire on a gut level (which is how people actually vote) even if they inspire on an intellectual level (which has little to do with how people actually vote). Lew, and the pun is really not intended but I'm stuck with it now, appeals on both the intellectual and the gut level and that is how a candidate wins.


Rock Hackshaw's picture
Submitted by Rock Hackshaw on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 2:59pm.
Well said bro. I concur. Especially about the candidates who cannot inspire or motivate democrats and independents. That's one thing Barack Obama did well. Lew Fidler is a cerebral candidate no question there.

Submitted by mole333 on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 3:39pm.

Enlightening book for me was The Political Brain by Drew Westen...it starts with a Neuroscientific study on how people vote and goes on to analyze how Democrats should campaign based on that scientific data. I think it is good stuff and too much ignored by Dems who might win if they read it.

http://healthymole.blogspot.com/2011/10/book-review-political-brain.html


Rock Hackshaw's picture
Submitted by Rock Hackshaw on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 3:52pm.
Thanks for the info. I will try to get that book soon. I have probably read many a similar thoery over the years, I am sure. Personally, I have now reached a place where I see "TIMING" as really really crucial to poiltcal candidates and movements. There is always a need but too often the timing isn't just quite right. let me posit that if the 2010 mid-term elections were held this past November, then Dems will have held the House. I hope I am not just thining wishfully/lol.

Submitted by mole333 on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 4:03pm.

I found the book I recommend somewhat surprising...I didn't agree with every point made, but looking at the science presented I had to agree with the basic conclusion. The main points are:

 1. Most voters vote based on emotion, not self intrest

2. Most voters agree with Democrats by far

3. Republicans do a FAR better job of appealing to emotions than Democrats and that is why they win

4. Surprisingly, the more educated the voter, the MORE they were guided by emotions when voting, and they used their smarts to justify their emotional vote. (Yeah...that could be all of us around here!)

 5. When Democrats appeal to emotions, they almost always win over Republicans because they are already coming from what voters want.

6. When Democrats appeal ONLY to intellect, they lose EVEN when they are coming from what voters want.

 Some very key lessons in that book that I think are underappreciated. Again, I don't agree with every word, but I thing the gist of the book is profound and the science it is based on is pretty good.


Rock Hackshaw's picture
Submitted by Rock Hackshaw on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 4:15pm.
I have known about the "emotion" piece for a while now (since freshman at Columbia U in 1980). In my political work I still try to appeal to the "intellect", "common sense" and "reason", since I feel in the end that's where we will be a better country EVENTUALLY (hopefully).

Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 8:28pm.

Thanks for the non-personal response.

The numerical edge is in enrollment, a metric we should all stop using when it varies so much from actual performance. Calling the 27th Democratic because of enrollment would be like saying the same of Mississippi--and that's just silly. 

The 27th went against Gillibrand, Dinapoli and Schneiderman last year. It went heavily for Bloomie all three times. It went for McCain and it went for Dubya in 2004. It went 2 to 1 for Bob Tutner.  

This is not just about weak Dems. For chrissakes, this district voted for Joe DioGuardi! 

By what performance based metric does this district qualify as Democratic? 

As to making bets, my philosphy is like Arnold Rothstein's. I bet when I know the result in advance.

Oh, and I didn't wanna appear to be nitpicking in my piece, but since you dropped by, let me be clear Fidler ives in Sheepshead Bay, not Midwood.  



Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 8:37pm.

Figures.

I post two links to your stupid blog in one day, and then the site goes dark (and no, I am not referring to the Hackshaw post) what gives?

Anyway, Rock's piece can now be found here at R8, but here's the KOS link for your piece: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/01/18/1055971/-THE-Key-NY-Race-of-2012%3a-Lew-Fidler-for-State-Senate?via=user

Especially love the added ideo of Lew berating Vito at a County Commitee meeting.

Thanks.

As to Israel, whatever we believe, the issue was not BS to the many voters who voted on that basis, or were persuaded by Ed Koch that Turner was kosher on social security and medicare.

And btw, I gotta that someone altered a piece to be fair to Storobin, based on a defense of Storobin by Gatemouth.



Submitted by Schizophrenia Symptoms (not verified) on Wed, 01/18/2012 - 9:58pm.

Thank you for the thoughtful discussion and conversation. I appreciate that no one made it personal and there were no biting attacks on anyone by anyone. Wish it were always this way.


silentfirecracker's picture
Submitted by silentfirecracker on Sat, 01/21/2012 - 12:30am.
Sometimes you say things I might not particually like. Sometimes you may print stuff about me without checking if it's true. But you know what, I gotta give you MUCH love for that comment. You made my day. :-)

Submitted by serivce (not verified) on Thu, 05/17/2012 - 5:40pm.
spuAgG I really like and appreciate your post.Really looking forward to read more. Want more.

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