What Did You Do in the War, Daddy? (Corrected and Revised)

"[Congressional candidate Steve] Harrison also questions [City Councilman Michael] McMahon's position on the Iraq war: Was McMahon for it before he was against it?

Harrison was irked in particular by a line in the city delegation's endorsement of McMahon [for Congress in the 13th CD] last week that said McMahon "will play an important role in bringing our troops home from Iraq."
 
‘I will not let that statement stand,’ Harrison told us. ‘Mike clearly endorsed the war.’

As evidence, Harrison points to the fact that McMahon was one of 17 Council members who voted against a 2003 resolution, which passed the Council, opposing any U.S. attack on Iraq until all diplomatic avenues were exhausted.
 
‘To me, this is somebody who is pandering,’ Harrison said. ‘The question is where he really stands. We won't know until he gets to Washington.’

                                —Staten Island Advance- June 15, 2008


 
City Council and State legislative resolutions about foreign policy or national defense are mostly a matter of eunichs attempting to wank with both hands. The City Council surely does not have the ability to undertake in-depth examinations on such matters. Frankly, the there are times when it seems like can barely handle investigating important matters within their own purview. Apparently though, such matters are far more glamorous than overseeing the mundane tasks of city or state governance, especially to those members who’d rather be serving in Congress, which may be most of them.
 
In some constituencies, it is even what the voters want most. Assemblyman Dov Hikind’s constituents want him to spend his time railing against any attempt by the Israeli government to rid itself of the cancerous tumor called the West Bank, and given such activities keep him from trying to advance his mostly conservative agenda at his place of work, I’m inclined to agree with them. Likewise, until they find themselves with a child of school age, most Brownstone Brooklynites probably think the most important thing their Councilmember can do is vote against the war.
 
Staten Island Councilman Michael McMahon excuses his vote against the 2003 Iraq antiwar resolution saying, "we were elected to deal with the problems of the City of New York, not render opinions on foreign affairs, of which we did not have sufficient data.."
 
This did not stop McMahon from co-sponsoring some idiotic non-binding resolution of other kinds, but he seems to have drawn a line with regard to foriegn policy. And, clearly there is a difference: except if one is either a pacifist or a monster, one would not expect lawmakers to vote upon matters of war and peace without sufficient date. By contrast, there is no conceivable objective data that could help one sort out why they would vote for some of the crap Mr. McMahon has put his name on in the name of what passes for politics in the County of Richmond. But that is a topic for another day.
 
McMahon has since declared himself to be against the war, and has outlined a rationale for what he acknowledges is a change of position. McMahon said that nobody expected the Bush administration "to occupy Iraq and totally mismanage the operation....like most Americans, I felt somewhat betrayed by his abuse of my trust".
 
Let me be frank, if one wants a candidate who’s endorsed a immediate withdrawal in the manner of Dennis Kucinich, then Steve Harrison is your guy. If, however, one would find sufficient a candidate whose ideas about withdrawal from Iraq bear more resemblance to those of Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton, then Mr. McMahon would appear to be quite acceptable, perhaps even preferable.
 
Still Mr. Harrison feels the 2003 vote is disqualifying. Many local activists agree, even though many of the same folks excused John Edwards for doing something similar.
 
Although I opposed the war from the beginning, I happen think that a lot of good people, like Edwards and John Kerry (along with a lot of not so good people) were wrong on the war, but I think that the good people who were wrong on the war, were wrong for the right reasons. They believed, based on the doctored data they had seen, that granting the President the authorization he sought was justified under the circumstances.
 
This was the wrong position, but not one which in and of itself was inherently evil. Of course, I also happen to think that not all the people opposed to the war were so good either, ---Pat Buchanan comes to mind, as does ANSWER. 
 
Harrison not only questions McMahon's vote on the war resolution, but he also questions the sincerity of McMahon's current position on the matter. Is he correct?
 
We know that, in 2003, McMahon cast his one and only vote which might indicate a position, failing to support a symbolic anti-war resolution at the City Council. We also know that, in 2004 McMahon supported ultra-anti-war candidate Howard Dean for President, which seems to indicate a shift in his sentiments. A McMahon supporter has also cited a statement, I think at the funeral of a soldier, where McMahon said the war had gone on for too long, but this may not have been a call to end the war--it could have been a weary prayer that we finish the job quickly and go home, which I think is the hope of most war supporters as well--or it may really have been an anti-war statement--I dunno. Finally, we know that, in Brooklyn Conservative Party Leader Jerry Kassar has stated that, in 2008, McMahon made statements which seemed intended to convey his support for the war.
 
To some extent, none of this really matters if one is going to hold against Mr. McMahon his vote on the 2003 resolution. However, even those who would do so must concede that that vote is only relevant to be held against McMahon if his opponent took a different position at the time. The evidence indicates this was not the case.
 
There is no public record of any anti-war statement by Harrison from that time. In 2002, at the time Congress took its vote on the war, Harrison was openly supporting pro-war Congressman Vito Fossella's re-election. On the very day Congress voted for the war resolution, Harrison was so outraged at the Republicans that he wrote a $250 check to the Republican-Conservative candidate for State Comptroller, John Faso. Shortly thereafter, Harrison wrote another in a series of checks to Joe Bruno’s hand-picked, pro-war, anti-abortion, pro-school prayer State Senate candidate, Councilman Marty Golden, who was running against a Democratic incumbent.
 
Harrison’s explanation for all this is that he did so to advance an important local zoning proposal; however, that miserable excuse fails to explain (1) that the Democrat Golden ran against favored the same zoning change, (2) that Golden was surely more effective working for that change on the Council where he was sitting, rather than in the State Senate, and (3) that zoning can in no way explain Harrison's contributions to the Conservative Party, a Statewide Republican, and Vito Fossella.
 
Frankly, all the donations in that pattern (Conservative Party, Statewide Republican, Golden and Fossella) are better explained as an effort to buy Republican and Conservative support for Golden's open Council seat if and when Golden won the Senate race (he did). In fact, Harrison's donations follow almost to the letter the exact pattern in which Brooklyn Republicans and Conservatives extort suckers for their support, for positions as various as races for the City Council and appointments to the Court of Claims.  
 
I recently heard a speaker at a local political club describe how it worked. The amounts seem to vary, depending upon the office and the finances of the mark being conned, but the pattern of donations apparently remained the same, as I suspect did the pitch (never a straight quid pro quo; it is merely suggested that such financial support would be "helpful") and the result (most of the suckers seem to get the rug pulled out from under them--which is what eventually happened to Harrison).
 
On election day 2002, in the aftermath of the war vote, Harrison, an important Bay Ridge civic leader, stood outside a polling handing out palm cards with Vito Fossella's name on them, even though Fossella had just voted to authorize a war in Iraq. It is inconceivable that a person morally outraged by the war vote in 2002 could have handed out palm cards on election day with Vito Fossella's name, just because of some attenuated connection to a local re-zoning.
 
At the very least, such activities would indicate something less than moral indignation. Therefore, I think it is safe to assume that Harrison came around on the war sometime later than 2002. But when?
 
I’ve searched and could find no public record of any Harrison statement against the war until 2006, when he started running for Congress. Better late than never, I suppose.

Certainly, there was no effort by Harrison, then Chair of Brooklyn Community Board 10, to introduce any anti-war resolutions at his Board, even though similar resolutions passed at the City Council and other Community Boards. Likewise, though Harrison was President of a local Democratic club, and plenty of Democratic clubs passed anti-war resolutions in 2002-2003, there is no public record that the club Harrison lead ever took such a position.
 
So, all we know is that Harrison continued to support Congressman Fossella election in the aftermath of the war vote; after that we have nothing. Surely, if Harrison was as passionately against the war as he would have us believe, there would exist one letter to the editor, one name in an ad, one resolution at a Community Board or a political club, one contribution to an-antiwar group or candidate, or one photo at an anti-war rally, prior to 2006. But no one has been able to produce any such documentation.
 
And no Steve, a statement by Marty Golden saying he heard you (presumably from across the table when you were working for him stuffing envelopes) speak against the war in 2002, would not count.    
 
So, it appears that like Mr. McMahon, Mr. Harrison was also a Johnny-come-lately to the anti-war cause. Neither candidate could be bothered to make an anti-war statement until they starting running for Congress, but I'm glad that they've both done so, now.  But let's face facts, neither of these guys has the standing to claim that they are the moral equivalent of Wayne Morse or Ernest Gruening (read your history, folks).

Of course, only one of them does.



Submitted by Jerry Kassar (not verified) on Sat, 06/28/2008 - 1:13pm.

 

Gatemouth:

 Mike McMahon's comments were at an Executive Committee interview conducted by the Kings County Conservative Party held several weeks ago for the Congressional seat. The meeting was attended by approxiamtely nineteen leaders.

Regardless of where Coucilman McMahon stands today, he led the committee to beleive that he supported continued US actions in Iraq. 

  Jerry Kassar 


Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sat, 06/28/2008 - 5:02pm.
The piece has been throughly revised to correct any inaccuracies you've raised.

Submitted by ROSALIE907 (not verified) on Sat, 06/28/2008 - 11:59pm.

You're at it again Gatemouth.  When you started this on The Daily Gotham even Senator Savino stated that the past is the past and what matters is now and you should stop it.  I guess your friend Vito Lopez outweighed Diane Savino.  Additionally, you have yet to prove what you state is true even on TDG. 

Thank you Mr. Kassar for your post.  

 


Gatemouth's picture
Submitted by Gatemouth on Sun, 06/29/2008 - 7:53am.

In certain precincts of the left, citing the name of Mr. Lopez, a man who, whatever his falings, is probably is personally reponsible for the elevation to the bench of more members of the National Lawyers Guild than any other person in New York State, is considered sufficient refutation for any argument. I guess they embrace the Reaganite argument that "Facts are Foolish things".  

Rosalie's grasp on facts, and perhaps reality itself, is tenuous at best. The last time we argued she seemed to be putting forth the proposition that palm cards were not invented until the year 2004. Sometime prior to that she argued that Dominic Recchia and Vito Lopez were responsible for Mr. Harrison's loss last time, because they didn't manage to get him Harrison the 80% of the Brooklyn vote Harrison would have needed to win.  I've heard of drinking someone's Kool-Aid, Rosie, but can we at least wait until they've added the water?  

Rosalie-- I will make you a deal. If and when Steve Harrison issues a statement saying that how Mr. McMahon voted in 2003 does not matter, I will remove this colum from the Room 8 archives.

Prediction. It will still be here come primary day, because Mr. Harrison will keep on using the 2003 vote in his campaign.

As to your demand for proof, I really cannot provide it. This is because I've searched the internet trying to find a pre-2006 statement by Mr. Harrison opposing the war, and it does not exist. But, how am I supposed to prove the non-existence of this political bandersnatch?

If you'd like to refute me, I suggest you go down to the Home Reporter and go through the four years of back issues of the period in question. Surely, if a pre-2006 statement against the war by Mr. Harrison really does exist, you'll find at least one in those 200 plus weeks of newsprint.

Provide me with proof it exists, and I'll write a retraction.  

So, Rosie, are you up to the Gatemouth challenge. Or is this the last we hear from you on this matter?  

And, just to set the record straight. I did not start this on "The Daily Gotham". Michael Bouldin wrote the piece saying that what happened in 2003 mattered.

If you got a problem with that, I suggest you go complain to Mr. Bouldin. If you find his piece so offensive, ask him to remove it. It can be done. I know this because anytime the last time I posted a piece about Mr. Harrison on the Daily Gotham, Mr. Bouldin removed it. 



Submitted by ROSALIE907 (not verified) on Sun, 06/29/2008 - 8:39pm.

1.  Do you include homophobic bigot Noah Dear in your list of those elevated from the N.L.G. by Lopez?

2. What I said was that I never saw palm cards in my district.  I also stated that had Lopez supported Steve in 2006 Steve could have won.  Tell me, why didn't your friend Vito hold a fundraiser or donate to the Campaign.  Also, it was ME who took Steve around Gravesend, not Recchia despite his being asked.  As for water in the Kool Aid, what are you drinking?

3.  I don't make deals on behalf of others.

4.  You can't provide proof but you make statements without any backup.  Put up or shut up.

5.  Unlike you I have a life.  If you want someone to spend time going through the Home Reporter then do it yourself.

6.  Michael removed your last piece because it was total b.s.  At least when Michael posts anything it's truthful.  You should take a lesson from him.

Get over it Gatemouth. 

 


Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 6:14am.

1) I never saw you post a piece against Dear during that race-- I posted several. Mr. Lopez's actions during that race do not inure to his credit. When his candidate against Dear dropped out for personal reasons, he put his finger in the air, saw which way the wind was blowing, and endorsed Dear without offering him much in the way of substantive help, so he could use Dear's name in those places where it was useful (this is somewhat reminiscent of his actions in this Congressional race). But he did not elect Dear.

That being said, those judges personally chosen by Mr. Lopez over the years (as opposed to the choices made by the County organization under his leadership) are almost all activist oriented legal services-type lawyers: Gus Reichbach, Jack Battaglia, Wayne Siatta, Richie Rivera (RIP), even Margarita Lopez-Torres. None would be on the bench today if not for Lopez. His record in his personal choices, may or may not be an anomaly, but it is a fact which makes the point I was trying to make, which is, that merely dropping the name Lopez is not a substitute for saying evil right winger. His record in Albany is far more liberal than that of you Assemblymember.

So, Rosalie, instead of using "Gatemouth is a Vito puppet" as a substitute for engaging my arguments, why not just show me one--just one--statement or action Mr. Harrison took against the war in the years before he decided to run for Congress?

2) Your point about palm cards is still nuts. And your point of how Harrison would have gotten to 43% to 51% if Lopez helped him more is a virtual mathematical imposssibility. Harrison would have had to take about 80% of the Brooklyn vote for that to have happened. You can flatulate and fulminate all you want; you can lie all you want, but the numbers don't lie.

3) Harrison will never foreswear using the 2003 vote (just like he will not rise to my last challenge and say he opposes a constitutional amendment to ban flagburning). So, if Harrison won't stop doing it, why is it illegitmate for me to call him on it? Diane Savino is not my mommy or my wife.

4) I could link the several hundred entries in google from 2002-2005 where Harrison does not make any statements concerning the war, but I cannot line the one where he does--because it does not exist. That, my dear, is putting up or shutting up. If proof exists, Harrison could easily access it. It is you dear, or your candidate, who needs to put up or shut up.

5) Rosie, with all of Harrison's hundreds of dedicated volunteers I keep hearing about, surely one has the time to do the research and produce proof of a statement showing that Harrison's anti-war position pre-dates his congressional candidacy. It does not have to be the Home Reporter. I merely suggested that as the most likley repository for such docmentation.

I will not be going there, however, for the same reason no one form the Harrison campaign will. The expedition would be a snark hunt, for no such documentation exists.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! PROVE IT DOES! YOU CAN'T! HAHAHAHA! 

6) To Mr. Bouldin's credit, he did not remove my more imflamtory pieces about Harrison, but he did remove this one. http://www.r8ny.com/blog/gatemouth/riders_of_the_lost_cause_starring_harrison_fraud.html

Please read it, because I know you never have. Yes, you did comment in the thread, but you never engaged the argument, which is that, the numbers don't lie, and the numbers show, contrary to Harrison's arguments, that Harrison would be a very weak candidate for the Democrats. That's where you make your extremely stupid comment about how Harrison would have won if Vito had helped him, an argument which is refuted by the math. Numbers don't lie--Rosie does.

BTW, I no longer believe the argument i made in that piece is so important. Given the current Republicans disaray, it appears that a well-groomed chimpanzee running on the Democratic line could get 55% with little effort. Therefore, Harrison should be able to manage 51%.

 


Submitted by Gate (not verified) on Mon, 06/30/2008 - 6:15am.
never logged in--that last comment was me
Submitted by Bouldin (not verified) on Thu, 07/03/2008 - 10:41am.

...sif I see myself quoted one more time in any relation to your various dishonest and discredited vendettas, I'm going to get very angry indeed.

And that's all I need to say, I'd hope.


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